Crew Shaken, Not Stirred: TACTICA: "Edenbreaker" Musings on 5th Edition Elda...

Crew Shaken, Not Stirred: TACTICA: "Edenbreaker" Musings on 5th Edition Elda...: "The concept behind 'Edenbreaker' really is the cumulation, in my mind, of where the Eldar game has been going since late 4th Ed into what we..."

I was talking to a Blue T Shirt the other day, and we were talking generally about the game. My point to him was that the Iggies now have the Valk (and the Vendetta cop out) and now the BA have been given the Stormdrain. So I have a shopping list for 5th Ed Eldar:

Pop up attacks from all of our skimmers.

High flying.

Web portal.

Storm Guardians

Augment as a Warlock power

Camelioline Scorpions

Wraithguard split into Assasin (CC) and Executioner (warp cannon)

Waithseer (ie a Wraithlord with Farseer powers - obviously not affected by wraithsight)

Link of the Day.

Deployment:

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/11/discussion-deployment-101.html

Some nice ideas here. As the campaign escalates in 1000 point chunks, I suspect that these ideas (and reserves) will become more important.

Escalation Forces of the Imperium

Ordo Hereticus Expeditionary Force (Witch Hunters) 1000 points

Lady Inquisitrix Hammer of the witches, Word of the Emperor, Bionics, Carapace armour, Liber heresies, Psychic hood, Purity seals, Plasma pistols, Power stake.
Acolyte
Warrior (Guardsman Grenade launcher)
Warrior (Crusader Power sword, Suppression shield)
Chirurgeon
Familiar

Inquisitor Scourging, Carapace armour, Hexagrammic wards, Psychic hood, Inferno pistol, Power stake.
Warrior (Guardsman Flamer)
Warrior (Crusader Power sword, Suppression shield)
Sage
Chirurgeon

Death Cult Assassins (2) fearless, infiltrate, power weapon

Sisters Repentia (9) Eviscerator
Repentia Mistress Neural whips

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers (5) 3x Hellgun, melta, plasma

Imperial Guard Platoon

2lt Hammer Bolt pistol, power weapon
Platoon Cmd Squad 3x Grenade launchers, platoon standard

Squad Alpha (Sgt & 9) flamer

Squad Beta (Sgt & 9) plasma

Special Weapon Squad Gamma (6) 3x Sniper rifle

2nd Line Regt Devos IV PDF (5ed IG) 1000 points

Primaris Psyker
Lord Commissar

Psyker Battle Squad (4 & Overseer)

Design Platoon
Platoon Cmd Squad Platoon Standard, Missile Launcher
2lt Foche Power fist

1st Squad (Sgt & 9)
2nd Squad (Sgt & 9)
3rd Squad (3x Las cannon)
4th Squad (3x Heavy Bolter)

Accident Platoon
Platoon Cmd Squad Platoon Standard, Missile Launcher
2lt Ney Power fist

1st Squad (Sgt & 9)
2nd Squad (Sgt & 9) 10 bolters
3rd Squad (3x Las cannon)

Destroyer tank hunter tank, Laser destroyer, pintle storm bolter

Kursk Coy, 2nd Bn, Kado 540th Advance Party (5ed IG) 1001 points

Coy Cmd Squad Regtl Standard, plasma
Maj Chekov Refractor field, plasma pistol, power sword

3rd Platoon Cmd Squad 2x flamer
Lt Lenin

1st Squad (Sgt & 9) melta
2nd Squad (Sgt & 9) flamer
3rd Squad (Sgt & 9) melta
4th Squad (Sgt & 9) flamer
A-T Support Squad (att 333rd ASL) 3x Las cannon

4th Platoon Cmd Squad melta
Lt Marx

1st Squad (Sgt & 9) melta
2nd Squad (Sgt & 9) flamer
3rd Squad (Sgt & 9) melta
4th Squad (Sgt & 9) flamer

333rd Armageddon Steel Legion Armoured Sentinel Det (1x Plasma cannon, 2x Las cannon)

Escalation People's Libertine Army

Bloodcoats (5ed IG) 1080 points

Primaris Psyker


1st Platoon Command Squad melta,plasma,grenade launcher,flamer
Squad (sgt & 9) flamer
Squad (sgt & 9) grenade launcher
Squad (sgt & 9) melta
Squad (sgt & 9) plasma
Heavy Wpn Squad (3) mortars
Heavy Wpn Squad (3) mortars
Heavy Wpn Squad (3) mortars


2nd Platoon Command Squad grenade launcher,flamer
Squad (sgt & 9) flamer
Squad (sgt & 9) grenade launcher
Squad (sgt & 9) melta
Squad (sgt & 9) plasma
Heavy Wpn Squad (3) auto cannon
Heavy Wpn Squad (3) auto cannon
Heavy Wpn Squad (3) auto cannon

Tigers (Servants of Slaughter IA6) 1083 points

Exalted Champion (Maj Choo) bionics, melta bombs, shotgun, power weapon, refractor field
Veteran melta bombs, plasma pistol
Command Squad plasma

3rd Platoon Command Squad melta
(Lt Dolce) Bolter, Carapace Frag & Krak
Squad (Veteran & 9) flamer, plasma
Squad (10) flamer

4th Platoon Command Squad krak
(Lt Gabanna) Power weapon (daemon sword)
Squad (Veteran & 9) flamer

Sentinel Squadron
2x flamer, 1x multi laser

Disciples Squad (Champion & 8) Frag & Krak, infiltrate

Leman Russ MBT Battle cannon, track guards, hull mounted las cannon, HB Sponsons

Leman Russ MBT Battle cannon, track guards, hull mounted las cannon, HB Sponsons

Emperor’s Children (CSM) 1000 points

Daemon Prince mark of Slannesh, Lash of Submission

Squad Boyzone
8 noisemarines 2x sonic blaster, 1x blastmaster, 5 bolters fearless, powered armour
1 noise marine champion power fist

Squad JLS
7 noise marines 3 sonic blasters, 4 bolters, fearless, powered armour
1 noise marine champion power weapon (daemon sword)

Predator exterminator tank, auto cannon, HB sponsons, searchlight, smoke

Predator exterminator tank, auto cannon, HB sponsons, searchlight, smoke

Defiler (walker) Battle cannon, 2 dreadnought CCW, TL auto cannon, TL heavy flamer daemonic possession

Revising history

CNJ, MCH, KK;

I've learnted more rools.

Specifically things like when a unit comes off worse in close combat it has to make a morale check or break. And then the victor gets to make a 'Sweeping Advance' to inflict further damage on the routing unit.

If we had included these then the Eldar (dark & vanilla) would have been much better matched against the PLA, almost certainly getting further with each assault.

And the AP of a weapon is matched against their armour save; if the AP is equal or less than the value of the armour save then the victim does not get the save, they just snuff it. So that would have done for another half dozen of CNJ's guard.

C'est la vie. Or not, as the case may be.

Escalation army lists.

A lot of this (fortunately) is already painted. There are bits that are not - including the entire Emperor's Children list. So they'll wait until last - I'd want the others finished rather than jeopardising a list because I'd been painting the CSMs.

I'll post up three sets of lists over the coming days; the PLA, the Eldar interlopers and the forces of the Imperium. Just to whet the appetites of dos generales.

There will also be a few themed games. The capture (or not) of Maj Gen Marcus Firth III by the PLA. The rescue of Dracite Taple by the Kabal. And the stuggle for the Frabovoki Promethium terminal. Frabovoki is a single industry town (unsurprisingly). It's also the nexus of communication routes between Xyphonica and the western coast. So success here may well see either the forces of the Imperium fighting to retain their hold on Benq or the PLA beaten back across the plains to Xyphonica.

Odd.

I've just caught a thread on YTTH http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/11/politically-correct-bad-for-hobby.html

Now Stelek is always the devils advocate and so on but the arguement here hinges on a subjective scoring element in competitions in the Antipodes. The gist of it is that if you bring a Stelek-esque killer army list and manage to crush everyone else in the tournament, then that is bad sportsmanship.

The rulebook and restrictions in the codecies are there to provide the balance and framework within which the game can be played. So if the Stelek-esque list is BRB and Codex 'legal' then bring it is simply that player maximising their chances of success in a competition.

It is a competition. If the tournament organiser feels the need to impose a different set of force organisation charts then that is still fair cop. If everyone has to build on 2HQ, 2 different Elite choices, 2 Troops, 2 Fast Attack and 2 different Heavy Support then that is still a level playing field. It is objective in that it is not open to interpreation by opinion; its all already in black and white and does not hinge on being a chum of the organiser or having a face that fits.

Penalising someone for a Stelek-esque or min/max or spam list has to be subjective. It is entirely within the opinion of the person charged with the responsibility to decide if someone's list is 'fair' this is not following the BRB or Codecies. No matter how fair minded and well intentioned, those whose own view of 'fourtykay is closest to that of the 'judge' will score the best.

A sportsmanship score should be given on the performance of the player at the table (and in the bar/shop/lounge). Patience, politeness, reasonableness and a whole host of other ness-es is what should make up someones 'sportsmanship' score; if such a thing were to be scored at all. And these should be in the view of their peers. This might include the organisers/referees but primarily is down to the other players.

Army composition has sod all to do with sportsmanship in an open, competitive, environment.
Now I know that I've been reading YTTH too much.

And...... Box !

Mrs Zzzzzz is going out 'later' (it's a hen do). So no start expected before Z14 10:00 Nov09.

Also, part of the fee is that she gets picked up from central Oxford. Which means that someone has to remain sober. So that'll be me then.

MCA will be busy (it's Alison's birthday). AD will be in and out, as dictated by her flighty and whimsical nature.

So the three of us, CNJ, MCH and Z will either be reffin' or playing the whole time (unless we can pursuade AD to 'have a go').

We'll quite probably have had enough by the time Mrs Zzzzz gets home; and there's no activity planned for Sunday.

Wotsit all about (Alfie ?)

OK: The whole Devos IV idea was for the four of us ol' drinking buddies to have a huge apoc fight. We all thought it would be fun and light releif from the FRPG.

However, I, as the supplier of the armies and so on, have found it a huge task and its taken over a year to get to where I (we) now are.

So what this means is that this weekend coming we have a series of patrol clashes. Six 400 point armies. So that's thirty games before we even have to fight someone we've fought before. Only two of these armies have vehciles (DE Raiders and the Tigers[Devos 13th] have a pair of scout sentinals).

Admiral Drax's blog today includes a link to here: http://goingoncampaign.blogspot.com/ which provoked the following random thoughts which had been coalsecing somewhere out there and have now made it to cogniscense.

The games, assuming we continue, will have to follow an escalation pattern as I manage to paint up more of each army. So it's sort of evolving already into a campaign. These patrol clashes will just be patrol clashes at the onset of hostilities on Devos IV. The next set of games, somewhere between 1000 and 1500 points, hopefully, will feature things like the Shrine of St Joesphine and the Pormethium refinary (seize the ground), an ambush of the IG supply column (running the gauntlet) and so on. Hopefully this will generate enough buy-in from the participants to lead to the next round (or two) of the escalation campaign; even if its only grudge matches.

Eventually we will get the apoc game when the IG try to liberate Marcus Firth and the Eldar go after Chaux Na.

WH40K Rules OK (?)

Nah. Not really.

The 4th ed basic rule book (BRB) contains a lot of kool/useful/fun stuff that has been, perhaps for reasons of space and consiceness, left out of the 5th ed BRB.

So then, the idea that an army's codex 'trumps' the BRB is not too hard to cope with. ie a specific rule for a particular army stands even if it contradicts something in the BRB that everyone else has to abide by; for instance, Dark Eldar, living in the webway itself, are always the attacker in scenarios with attackers/defenders. No problemo.

And those things that are in the 4th ed BRB; combat patrols and Kill Team fights are still perfectly useable.

Indeed, I think, despite not actually playing much, that a games system that can handle Kill Team missions (you get one squad of expendable heros, I get a Bond Villan Lair) and Apocalypse scale games (>3000 points per side) without breaking is actually pretty good. I'm pleased that now I have game tables, scenery and armies, I can play immensely differring games with it all with the same rule set. Bonza.

One of the things that doesn't help is points. In Rogue Trader, there is a points list that gives the points cost for attributes, ailities and wargear. Nice.

Flicking through the newer codices, it is obvious that someone at GW noticed that certain combinations of things produced units that were either greater or lesser than these simple numerical points scores would suggest. And so the points scores that there now are, are so different that it's not easy to see where they come from. For instance, the Imperial Guardsman has dropped by two points in the 5th ed IG codex. This encourages the IG player to take more of them, simulating the type of army that the fluff suggests. Their stat line has not changed, the tweak to the points cost just made them cheaper.

So it's sort of hard to 'make stuff up' and give it an appropriate points cost. FW models always come with rules for their use somewhere, whether an Imperial Armour book, a pdf or in a soft back suppliment. There is always an aura of expense (in points cost) associated with these items when you look at the on line 40k community's comments on them. So that does not provide a good guide (although does provide a good 'upper' handrail).

Therefore the player is left with the 'counts as' option. Whatever it is that has been produced simply 'counts as' something from an existing army. Which is fine, but it does mean that whatever it has to 'count as' something from the codices that you actually possess/have access to. And if you wanted one of those you wouldn't have gone to the trouble of modelling something different in the first place - after all, the models are supposed to be WYSIWYG so you'd use a guardsman with a melta gun figure to represent a guardsman with a melta gun.

There are tweaks that one can reasonably extrapolate from a limited amount of source data to allow some creativity. As long it is the same mind/crerative genius using the same method for each of the new creations then the adjustments to each army should be comprable. It's a working practice and we're only playing beer and pizza games anyway. One might suppose that if a tournament organiser isn't going to allow (the already over priced) FW items, as they might not occur in the codex; they arn't going to allow home brew units either. Max Nix.

Capturing Lt Gen Marcus Firth III

Lt Gen Marcus Firth III is, for the first couple of battles, the HQ choice for Devos 2nd Regt.

There will be a battle to capture him. For this battle, every shot that wounds him will be assumed to miss (as the Army of Chaux Na M'rr'see are trying to capture him, not kill him). The capteurs have to 'wound' (subdue) him in CC in order to capture him. Once a zero wounds, they can bundle him (in base to base contact) back to their board edge.

Codex, non-codex, apoc, cities of deff etc

In case there someone out there who is insterested:

Devos IV loyalist PDF 5th Ed Codex IG
Valhallans 5th Ed Codex IG
Bel Tain Craftworld Eldar
Dark Eldar Dark Eldar
Bloodcoats Defenders of Vraks
Tigers Servants of Slaughter
Emperor's Children CSM

There are also Rough Riders (IG Codex) and Chaos Hounds (Eye of Terror) to go into the Tigers.

Not there yet:

Ulthwe Craftworld Eldar
DKK 5th Ed Codex IG

More house rules

Dice will shaken in a pot (old paint/filler pot) and rolled into a suitable tray (baneblade box). Cocked dice will be removed and reshaken.

Nothing goes onto the game table that is not part of either army or scenery. No food, no drink, templates, dice, books, rules, army lists. No reinforcements yet to be deployed, no 'dead' units. All these things remain on the side table.

All figures used will be based, basecoated and have at least three colours applied as a minimum standard before use.

Loser is the umpire for the next round. Winner makes the teas and coffees.

Certain things that are heavy weapons in the Basic Rule Book (BRB) and codexes can only either move or fire. ie they cannot both move and fire in the same turn as they need to be set up and/or dismantled and are bulky, heavy (doh) and awkward. These are mounted on 60mm bases.

Certain weapons (Devos 2nd Regt Las cannons, DKK grenadier Heavy Flamer, Devos 2nd Regt heavy stubber and Bloodcoat Heavy stubber) whilst 'heavy weapons' for all other purposes; are designed to be mobile and will be allowed to move and fire in the same round. These are mounted on 40mm round bases. These units cannot 'run'.

Feck. That's a bit awkward.

The GW cadian sprue comes with the bits to make a sgt (pistol and chainsword), and a number of riflemen. Now some of these riflemen can be given alternative weapons (Flamer, GL, Melta gun and plasma gun - the melta and plasma you had to buy aftermarket, but hey, who cared ?)

When I put the DKK together I ended up with enough to equip each squad with one of each. The cadians have one of each.

When I play Dawn of War (WH40K on the PC), you can give each squad three weapon upgrades (but no heavy weapon option, so maybe they had spotted what I later learned).

Using Army Builder, the IG squads (including Defenders of Vraks (the Bloodcoats) and the Servants of Slaughter (the Tigers)) can only be given one of these weapons (and a crew served heavy weapon, but that doesn't enter to this at the moment). The awkward thing is that I have modelled all of the squads for the DKK, Cadians, Bloodcoats & Tigers with all four weapons. So including the Sgt, there are only actually five riflemen in each squad for all of these armies.

I'm gonna fudge this. Stand by for a house rule:

If both opposing sides have modelled weapons that do not appear on their Army List; as long as it is identical to their opponent's not accounted for weapon; these identical weapons can be 'traded off' against each other on a like for like basis. This can only apply to armies written using the same basic codex (ie, derivitives of the IG).

getting somehere

I bought a subscription to Army Builder 3.2. I've made up 400 point lists for:

Devos IV loyalist PDF
Valhallans
Bel Tain
Dark Eldar
Bloodcoats
Tigers
Emperor's Children

So now all I have to do is base and paint these before 14 Nov 09. Some are already done. More to do, though. At least I now have a goal and am not just faced with a vast pile of work. The only vehicles I have to do are two scout sentinals for the Tigers and three Raiders for the DE. The DKK's eighteen Chimera can wait for another day.

Motivation

My motivation has been incrreased by 1) reading other peoples blogs about motivation. This led directly to my 2) putting two of the tabletops on trestles and flinging the cities of the death secenary on one and some fortifications on the other. Looks good. Must crack on with the HQs and Troops types for the first battles.

So, how will it work ?

We have Four (six ?) armies:

Eldar (poss split into Bel Tain and Ulthwe)

IG (sub divided into DKK, Devos IV PDF, Valhallans, and then sub bits of ASL, Vostroyans & Cadians)

(And a theoretically legal Inquistorial warband as well)

Heretics (the Bloodcoats) and Renegades (the Tigers).

(Now as part of the H&R army there is also a legal Emperor's Children (Chaos Spaze Muhreen) army.)

Dark Eldar (the infamous Cabal of the Broken Teaspoon)

And a number (five) of players:

Zzzzzz, CNJ, AD(HD), MCA & MCH.

So; does everyone choose an army at the beginning and stick with it, learning how it works and so forth ?

Or do we let people choose a different one each time (with the order of the choosers pre-determined on a rolling programme) ?

Or do we randomise the entire process ?

Or something else ?

Do feel free to offer an opinion, otherwise I will just make it up. And I will not be fair or equitable, I will have you all do my bidding, Mwa ha ha... (exits vertically on a flying chair, stroking a dog dressed as a white persian cat)

Cadian 44th Light Recce Regt

These are a 'remnant' on Devos IV - ie they are not there in sufficient numbers to form an army faction themselves, they are an add on to the Loyalist IG.

Troops: HQ section (FW ones - woo hoo), two standard squads, two special weapon teams (snipers)

Fast Attack: a troop of three HALO warthogs (count as salamanders)

I'm seriously considering adding more squads, purely because the FW Cadians are so kool. But that is a double whammy because once you have bought the FW bits, you need the regular Cadian bods to complete them.

Devos IV loyalist PDF (2nd Inf Regt)

These guys are 'auld skool' 1980's IG, from the days when they were Imperial Army. Necromundia 9th on the box cover, etc. So they are reinforced by the very occasional Cadian, but more oftern than not, Urban Mammoth's Viridians. The viridians are generally a better match.

They have grey uniforms and purpleyblue helmets. Which caused CNJ to comment that they looked like UN troops.

HQ: Gen Marcus Firth & command squad.

Troops: two platoons - command and four squads.

That's it. They do have a scattering of missile launchers, HB & LC, but these are embedded in the squads - They are supposed to be descended from Skittari regiments, hence the man portable LC and one infantry squad armed with bolters.

And Corporal Hicks, of course.

The Bloodcoats

The Bloodcoats are Heretics; they have bought into Chaux Na'merci's rebellion. They are fairly standard PDF unit following the IG Codex more or less.

In terms of modelling, these are mostly Cadians and FW peices; it looks like a Vraks army. With the chaos icons in the platoon command squads stripped out, they could pass for Salvar Chem Dogs.

HQ Still no HQ for these guys either; maybe the human wave guy from the codex. Maybe not.

Troops: two platoons; Command squads and five squads

Elite: Thudd Gun Battery, Ogryn beserker squad

Fast attack: Not a hope

Heavy Support: Nine Autocannon teams, twelve mortar teams, a troop of three LRMBT (only two at the moment).

Looks like a reasonable defensive line up to me, with the Ogryn as a fearsome counter attack unit. These boys are the PLAs anvil.